Curse

Test Me · Apr 17, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Conversely, one could argue that anyone from [Suka] could have googled it, looked at the very first result, and avoided this whole situation.

Oh sure. Next we'll name our kids based on google results in all possible languages. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear there is an actual person out there named Suka.

The crude reality is that whatever suka means in polish is totally irrelevant to non-polish. No one can ever stop you in US, UK or other countries to name your company/restaurant/kid/guild wars toon or whatelse: Suka. And proof that no one did stop those people from the examples above and you can find way more I'm sure.

Trying to impose polish naming rules on americans (or others) is just plain dumb. If polish have a problem with suka then a filter for Poland should be developed to scramble that. Making everyone in the world not use the 4 letter combination: "suka" just because polish don't like it is beyond absurd.

Tullzinski · Apr 17, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Support will block "b***" in Polish (this is in reference to Super Kaon Action Team), and I would like to point out that we do actually have Polish language support in-game, and we do have Polish people playing the game.

That person made that report on SuKa maliciously and should have been banned for reporting players maliciously per #1 of the GW rules of conduct. Even though he did not cause them to be investigated without reason, the report was still malicious as evidenced by his public post. Note the rule states OR.

While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. You will not report players maliciously, or cause them to be investigated without reason.
http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php

Am I wrong in my interpretation of this, being polish I am legally challenged at times.

On another note why was the person who reported the infraction informed of the outcome of the report this violates this rule:
http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...d_outcomes.php
Those who report a possible rules infraction by another player will not be informed of the outcome of our investigation; for privacy reasons, disciplinary actions will be a confidential matter between our staff and the affected player.

Technically Super Kaon Action Team's privacy was violated when the outcome of the report was transmitted to the person making the report.

trankle · Apr 17, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

The crude reality is that whatever suka means in polish is totally irrelevant to non-polish. No one can ever stop you in US, UK or other countries to name your company/restaurant/kid/guild wars toon or whatelse: Suka. And proof that no one did stop those people from the examples above and you can find way more I'm sure.

It is true that I could name my child/company etc Suka. That is my right, at least in the US. What is also true is that if I named my child Suka, it may not have many implications on a daily basis, but would be met with ridicule when that child met people in the US who knew what Suka meant in another language. And it would be met with ridicule if that child ever traveled to Eastern Europe. Etc. It's my right to name my child what I want, but it's in my interest, and the interest of my child, to research any name I'm considering and understand the implications of that name.

Likewise, I could name my business Suka, but the name could have negative impact when dealing with Eastern European customers. Again, it's my perogative, but I need to be aware of the implications of the name I choose.

I have the right to give names as I choose, but I don't have the right to stomp my foot up and down and demand that other people respond to them a certain way.

Ec]-[oMaN · Apr 17, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

I have the right to give names as I choose, but I don't have the right to stomp my foot up and down and demand that other people respond to them a certain way.

Yet the other party is entitled to interpret(or give their own meaning)to the name I've chosen in their own sinister way? Herein lies the problem with the policy and its enforcement. You or I can interpret anything we choose and give it any kind of offensive meaning we see fit and report it, which is what is happening.
I don't know how much this point needs to be stressed, it's the sole cause for certain actions being placed, and reading over the responses from (boneabra) [see what I did there?] one single person can take offense and bam ban.

Test Me · Apr 17, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

I have the right to give names as I choose, but I don't have the right to stomp my foot up and down and demand that other people respond to them a certain way.

Precisely.

And as precisely and as importantly polish don't have the "right" to tell me as a non-polish I can't use the four letter combination "suka" for my guild wars toon or guild tag. Yet that does not seem to be the case.

To take it to the extreme: I don't give a damn that polish get offended at "suka" and I don't see any reason why I should as I have no clue what the fuss is about. And I don't want to live by polish rules, thanks for the offer.

That's why I keep saying ArenaNet should not try to restrict the entire world in what anyone can do so every possible cultural group out there is pleased, but instead they should provide polish speakers with means to filter out "suka" if they don't want to see it in game.

Imagine what the world would be like if we all agreed to behave and speak in the most restrictive way with a minimum set of words so that no possible person from any impossible culture would be slightly offended. I wouldn't want to live in that world and GW seems to be heading that way.

PS: To no offense to any polish, it just so happens that the discussion is about them.

Tullzinski · Apr 17, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Precisely.

PS: To no offense to any polish, it just so happens that the discussion is about them.

None taken

Arduin · Apr 17, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Well, someone found those names offensive enough to report to Support, and after Support reviewed the User Agreement and naming policy, those names were found to be in violation.

The problem is, certain individuals are reporting names, not because they are offended by it, but because they get a kick out of having the power to actually force those players/guilds picking a new name.

How is support handling those cases? I suppose they can't differentiate between people honestly being insulted and the people reporting because they get off on it, but in the meantime players are getting a ban left and right.

trankle · Apr 17, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Yet the other party is entitled to interpret(or give their own meaning)to the name I've chosen in their own sinister way? Herein lies the problem with the policy and its enforcement. You or I can interpret anything we choose and give it any kind of offensive meaning we see fit and report it, which is what is happening.
I don't know how much this point needs to be stressed, it's the sole cause for certain actions being placed, and reading over the responses from (boneabra) [see what I did there?] one single person can take offense and bam ban.

Except, of course, that you are wrong. Give me one single example of a banned name that's completely innocuous, and I'll retract. The examples I've seen here may have been unintentional, but they point back to words that have existing definitions or slang definitions within the scope of Anet's stated banning policy.

You can't, in fact, get mad at Steve The Mesmer and get him banned for his name. Not even if you come up with some clever way to be offended. The report gets reviewed by a human being, who actually evaluates the name against actual and slang definitions, then makes the final call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

And as precisely and as importantly polish don't have the "right" to tell me as a non-polish I can't use the four letter combination "suka" for my guild wars toon or guild tag. Yet that does not seem to be the case.

To take it to the extreme: I don't give a damn that polish get offended at "suka" and I don't see any reason why I should as I have no clue what the fuss is about. And I don't want to live by polish rules, thanks for the offer.

That's why I keep saying ArenaNet should not try to restrict the entire world in what anyone can do so every possible cultural group out there is pleased, but instead they should provide polish speakers with means to filter out "suka" if they don't want to see it in game.

But that's not the extreme. The extreme would be if I were, say, of the opinion that naming a character I R*pe N**gers was clever way to express myself.

I would expect that that would be fine by you. Why be forced to live by the rules of any group?

Or maybe you agree that's too far, but would point to the filter system as a way of keeping it out of the game. OK, but without a report system, I could simply insert spaces, use synonyms, etc until I got my point across and got through the filter. Do you have any idea how many words you'd have to add to the filter to stop a jerk from communicating his point?

The sensible solution, if you are going to draw a line at some language in game, it to have a basic filter, augmented by a system of reporting those that circumvent it. Because they will circumvent it. The point then becomes where to draw the line. Anet has decided where they want it. You may disagree with that, but to deny the need for a line at all seems a bit naive to me.

Ec]-[oMaN · Apr 17, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Except, of course, that you are wrong. Give me one single example of a banned name that's completely innocuous, and I'll retract. The examples I've seen here may have been unintentional, but they point back to words that have existing definitions or slang definitions within the scope of Anet's stated banning policy.

There's piles of threads here on these forums about banned names, go dig and read for yourself if you can't believe it. We aren't making pure fiction here. It's fairly simple if I can relate any part of a name as being offense, it'll get banned. Tons of examples have been made in this thread alone, blatant or not, enforcement is out of control. All it takes is for someone to take something out of context and put it into their own as offensive.

FalconDance · Apr 17, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Regina, part of my upset is that Anet has decided that, after nearly four YEARS of being perfectly acceptable and allowable, certain names are now verboten. My husband is a case in point. No one in nearly four years apparently found offense in his naming conventions yet now he is being *forced* to rename all his characters or he can not log into them.

The new naming policy states you cannot reference any major religious figures, yet I saw a brand new character named "Christ XXX" (to protect their identity) in Ascalon two days ago (or maybe it was yesterday). If the policy is in effect, why was that person allowed to name a character that from the outset? It clearly references a major religious figure in direct violation of policy. Or is it only certain religious figures that are banned while others are entertained?

Anet walks a thin line. It wishes to provide an entertaining, safe environment for the players. This is to be commended. However, in implementing such a restrictive and non-fluid naming policy with no apparent logic, sense or leeway, it errs too far on the side of political correctness.

If a Scotsman takes offense that my monk is named after an ancient Scottish/Gaelic goddess who is still revered in certain circles today, I cannot and should not be held liable. The name is an honorific - yet there are religious people who may take offense at my honoring a pagan goddess. Does my two year old character get hit by the ban hammer? Under the new policy, she stands at risk even though nothing was done with ill intent (quite the opposite, in fact) and nothing was done against the naming policy.

Anet has gone too far. If a name was acceptable in the past, why is it suddenly not? Has culture changed so much? Have the global gaming "rules" changed so much? Obvious references to body parts, sexual matter or religious/cultural slurs should - and have always been - bannable offenses even though at times Anet was slow to act. Now we are forced to abide by policy that insists we magically, mystically know what acronyms and names may translate to in every other language, are expected to rename old characters and keep our mouths shut and accept such changes because we "sign" the Terms.

Please remind me, when did I sign to obey this new policy? I cannot remember one on or around April 2.

kedde · Apr 17, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

To be honest, the policy should've been put in place one day earlier and all would've been better.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 17, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

http://www.guildwars.com/products/guildwars/default.php

Scroll to the bottom to see specific rating info for Guild Wars.

Rating:Teen [Use of Alcohol; Violence]

The inclusion of Violence and Alcohol warrant the Teen rating. This does not mean that the game publisher needs to include other items that may warrant the same rating.

Yes, they chose to publish it as a Teen rated game. The ratings do not exist so that companies can be wishy-washy. They are standardized for a reason. When you advertise that your game fits within this category or standard you do not then enforce mix-mashed elements of greater restriction. They rated the game teen. We should not be punished for their false advertising. By advertising themselves as a Teen rated game they are responsible to permit the range of that category. If they lied about their rating then they remain wrong for everything they have done.

Regina Buenaobra · Apr 17, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

The problem is, certain individuals are reporting names, not because they are offended by it, but because they get a kick out of having the power to actually force those players/guilds picking a new name.

How is support handling those cases? I suppose they can't differentiate between people honestly being insulted and the people reporting because they get off on it, but in the meantime players are getting a ban left and right.

Again, Support will take action on names that break the rules, regardless of whether the person reporting it is doing it out of malice. The responsibility for a rule-breaking name lies with the person who created the name in the first place. HOWEVER, the player who is submitting the report could be investigated for abusive reporting. Players engaging in fake, abusive, and spurious/frivolous reporting, could lead to those players having their accounts terminated. Using the ticketing system, the report system, email, or IM to grief other players or to harass staff by reporting "offensive" names is not cool. Support will look at the players' track record and may take action on players who are abusing the system by suspending their account or in the case of the worst offenders, terminating their account.

blooQkazoo · Apr 17, 2009, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Well, someone found those names offensive enough to report to Support, and after Support reviewed the User Agreement and naming policy, those names were found to be in violation. If names don't break the rules, Support will not take action. There are plenty of reports made by players where Support doesn't ban a name -- because the name doesn't break the rules.

Oh, is that so? A couple months ago, I told my friends to report me for having the name Taii Ilee. It was the name of my assassin and I had come to dislike it greatly. Instead of remaking my sin because I had invested too much time in her, I had hoped that anet would have just let me rename my sin and keep all my titles, armor, skills, etc. (Now keep in mind I told TWO people to do this.) The next day, I checked guild wars and the 72 hour ban for "Inappropriate Name" showed up and I hoped for the best. Of course, I didn't get my name change but if ANYONE can find ANYTHING worth banning for the name Taii Ilee please let me know. I'm almost absolutely 99.9% sure that character name did not break any of the rules in the user agreement.

I'm pretty sure there's something very flawed with the system. It's good to know that the support team did take action but it makes me question if they even review the names worth banning at all or if they just ban just cause someone told them to ban.

p.s If you're going to try and find any flaw in my name, this doesn't count: "The word Taii is very similar to the english word TIE. And there were TIE Fighters in the original Star Wars movies. TIE Fighters belonged to The Empire. The Empire is bad therefore you're name is bad."

Sword Hammer Axe · Apr 17, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Support acts on offensive names. I've seen comments to the effect that people doesn't want Support taking action on names that break the rules, which is not really a workable solution. We understand that people make innocent mistakes, but what matters to support is whether the name breaks the rules, not whether someone did it unknowingly or did it maliciously. Their responsibility is to remove names that violate the User Agreement. I know it feels bad for players who make an innocent mistake when naming a character or guild. I know people get upset and angry about it, when they didn't even know or feel like they were doing anything wrong. Support isn't doing this out of any kind of vendetta against people. They're only acting on names that break the rules.
I'm also seeing different tolerance levels of what is "offensive" despite people's claims that they all agree with each other on what is offensive/not offensive. Some people personally would not have banned names that were banned (and speaking personally, just as a player, I do feel the same way sometimes). Well, someone found those names offensive enough to report to Support, and after Support reviewed the User Agreement and naming policy, those names were found to be in violation. If names don't break the rules, Support will not take action. There are plenty of reports made by players where Support doesn't ban a name -- because the name doesn't break the rules.

Another point about the "Teen" rating. Again, I will point out that GW is an international game, and "Teen" doesn't mean the same thing in every single country. Our players do not come from just one country, and GW is not played in just one country. If servers were sharded by region, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Support will block "b***" in Polish (this is in reference to Super Kaon Action Team), and I would like to point out that we do actually have Polish language support in-game, and we do have Polish people playing the game.

We're in continuing discussions with Support on these issues, and we have been bringing your opinions and views to them in our discussions.

I believe that most of the reports actually are personal vendettas on some person and not because they've found it offensive.

If you don't want to ban people or guilds there are several ways to do so: 1) Make a list for people to read with all the words that you find inappropriate. 2) Send a warning via e-mail to the offender before taking action. 3) make it impossible to write names that include offensive words.

Glad you listen to us and our complaints and keep up the good effort. It's impossible to satisfy everyone therefore you, seeing as you kind of are the GW government, should come up with something that will work best for most people and that is not excessive censorship when you look at the majority of GW (Kids, teens and youngsters in general)

Miss Achaea · Apr 17, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Again, Support will take action on names that break the rules, regardless of whether the person reporting it is doing it out of malice. The responsibility for a rule-breaking name lies with the person who created the name in the first place. HOWEVER, the player who is submitting the report could be investigated for abusive reporting. Players engaging in fake, abusive, and spurious/frivolous reporting, could lead to those players having their accounts terminated. Using the ticketing system, the report system, email, or IM to grief other players or to harass staff by reporting "offensive" names is not cool. Support will look at the players' track record and may take action on players who are abusing the system by suspending their account or in the case of the worst offenders, terminating their account.

Simply wondering, you find SuKa to be such an example?

Sword Hammer Axe · Apr 17, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by blooQkazoo

Oh, is that so? A couple months ago, I told my friends to report me for having the name Taii Ilee. It was the name of my assassin and I had come to dislike it greatly. Instead of remaking my sin because I had invested too much time in her, I had hoped that anet would have just let me rename my sin and keep all my titles, armor, skills, etc. (Now keep in mind I told TWO people to do this.) The next day, I checked guild wars and the 72 hour ban for "Inappropriate Name" showed up and I hoped for the best. Of course, I didn't get my name change but if ANYONE can find ANYTHING worth banning for the name Taii Ilee please let me know. I'm almost absolutely 99.9% sure that character name did not break any of the rules in the user agreement.

I'm pretty sure there's something very flawed with the system. It's good to know that the support team did take action but it makes me question if they even review the names worth banning at all or if they just ban just cause someone told them to ban.

p.s If you're going to try and find any flaw in my name, this doesn't count: "The word Taii is very similar to the english word TIE. And there were TIE Fighters in the original Star Wars movies. TIE Fighters belonged to The Empire. The Empire is bad therefore you're name is bad."

It sounds like "Thai Isle" or "Thai Ill" which are inappropriate use of nationalities? Dunno. Can't really find something here.

TwinRaven · Apr 17, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Again, Support will take action on names that break the rules, regardless of whether the person reporting it is doing it out of malice. The responsibility for a rule-breaking name lies with the person who created the name in the first place. HOWEVER, the player who is submitting the report could be investigated for abusive reporting. Players engaging in fake, abusive, and spurious/frivolous reporting, could lead to those players having their accounts terminated. Using the ticketing system, the report system, email, or IM to grief other players or to harass staff by reporting "offensive" names is not cool. Support will look at the players' track record and may take action on players who are abusing the system by suspending their account or in the case of the worst offenders, terminating their account.

So...a person in Poland can /report SuKu, even though it is an obvious attempt at Sucka (coloquialism for sucker), but given limited space provoded by the game mechanic forced the abreviation. Even though it is obviously an English word in an Englih guild name. OK...things are clear as to what needs to be reported.

Now, with the change of rules (not a clarification, but actual change of expectation) weare not allowed to report every name referencing a real-world act of violence (over a thousand commonly used violent verbs and nouns easily incorporated into names) because even though an obscure reference is obviously over the top, by the standards of the vetting process, obvious rule-breakers (according to company's "clarified" rules) cannot be reported whenever they are seen because it's too much work and considered harrassing the staff?

Seriously, there are thousands of names now considered inappropriate and can be reported according to the rules...and according to your arguments it is on them for choosing the names, not the reporters. We have the right to /report EVERY name considered inappropriate by these rules...and you want to punish us for it? How many /reports are too many? What if they all follow the rules? Would you really ban someone for reporting say, 100 names if they were all not in compliance with the rules? Is it abuse of the system to do what anyone can do anytime to someone even if it is another language, just every time you see it?

LOL...not my attitude, really...I would never report anyone, but you have opened it up and I see it coming. Sorry, but you can't put the shit back in the horse.

MithranArkanere · Apr 17, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Eh, good luck with that bit about languages.

Necromancer in Spanish is spelled "Nigromante", and it shortened form is not 'Necro', but 'Nigro'.
Many people got banned already for that before this change, and of course, no one of them could explain why, since they added "Nigro" to names like "Nigro Killer" when they meant "Necro Killer".

In many cases they were unbanned, but in most of them they had to change the name anyways.

FalconDance · Apr 17, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Again, Support will take action on names that break the rules..........

Regina, with all due respect, this is a lie by misdirection. I will use a personal example since I cannot and do not speak for the community at large. My husband is being forced to rename every single one of his characters. Not because they break the new policy, because they do not. ONE name on the account could have been construed to have done so. ONE out of eight. Yet all eight must be renamed or he cannot log into them. Some of those are nearly four years old. Four years of their being acceptable under the naming policy.

Engage and enforce a filter on the original naming that ensures people abide by the new policy by not using religious figures, crude and inappropriate language, etc. But please, please cease this lingual idiocy.